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In this Lean Stories conversation, Jonathan talks with Susie Braam about what it really takes to lead innovation in complex, highly accountable environments. Susie spent over 20 years in the UK national security sector, then moved into head of innovation roles, large-scale digital transformation, and advisory work. Along the way, she had to answer some hard questions about waste, courage, and what leadership actually looks like in practice. They discuss: *Why her early picture of innovation (“I can’t even draw a stick figure”) had to be unlearned *A simple definition of innovation: anything new that adds value *The amount of waste she saw in government and why Lean Startup made logical sense *The years she spent trying to convince the wrong people, and what changed when she focused on early adopters *How leadership behavior can either protect innovation teams or quietly damage them *The difference between mindset and culture, and why both matter *Why she sees leadership as courage, especially under pressure from above This is a grounded, honest look at innovation, strategy, and leadership in places where getting it wrong isn’t an option. If you want more long-form conversations with people doing this work in the real world, you can subscribe to the channel to follow future Lean Stories episodes.