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In this episode of Behind the Signs, Joe and Liz dive deep into one of the most polarizing topics in the sign industry: sales. But this isn’t your typical cold-call, pitch-heavy sales talk. Instead, they explore how different models of relationship building, community outreach, and brand trust can grow a sign shop—without ever hiring a traditional salesperson. Joe shares his experience scaling a $10M+ sign business using a structured sales team, while Liz reveals how her shop thrives with zero salespeople and no cold calls. They debate what really defines “sales,” discuss building a service-first brand, and share practical ways to stay top-of-mind with customers—from handwritten thank-you notes to Habitat for Humanity partnerships. Whether you love sales or loathe the word, this episode will give you a fresh perspective on how to grow your business with authenticity and intention. 👉 Subscribe for more sign shop insights, tips, and behind-the-scenes stories. Enjoy the video and let us know how it helps. Sponsors: 📌 SignTracker – Project management made for sign shops: Click here to try it free for 14 days: https://bit.ly/3SMSY2s 📌 Inktavo – Business tools for print, promo, and sign professionals: Click to check out our tools: https://www.inktavo.com/tools-resources/ 00:00 - Intro 02:38 - Public Speaking and Sales Parallels 04:15 - Reframing Your Shop as a Sales Org 06:10 - The "I Hate Sales" Perspective 08:17 - Passion vs. Pitch: How Owners Sell Best 09:56 - Relationship-Based Selling Models 11:47 - Early Sales Tactics vs. Organic Growth 13:19 - What Are You Really Selling? 15:17 - Commission Structures & Sales Teams 18:28 - Throwing Spaghetti: Finding What Sticks 20:07 - Getting an SBA Mentor 21:10 - Habitat for Humanity Strategy 23:41 - Community Involvement as Sales 26:15 - Designers Should Be at Sales Meetings 27:29 - Word-of-Mouth, Reviews, and Reminders 30:19 - Building a Loyal Clientele with Care 34:11 - Final Thoughts: Networking vs. Sales 38:31 - Wrap-Up & Where to Follow Us Be sure to join our community: / behindthesigns