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Here are three big ideas from this Change Signal conversation with Emily Moore: • Most system maps forget the humans who actually make change happen. • Ambiguity isn’t a flaw in complex change — it’s the job. • And resistance often reveals the leverage points leaders most need to see. Emily Moore — engineer, educator, and longtime industry leader — joins me to explore why systems thinking becomes far more useful when we stop pretending organizations are neat, linear, and logical. We talk about the people we forget to include, the pressures that make us rush to solutions, and why the org chart almost never shows where influence really lives. Emily shows how experienced leaders can navigate complexity with more humility and patience, especially when dealing with wicked problems where a single “answer” doesn’t exist. She explains why sitting with ambiguity a little longer creates better decisions, and how vocal resistors often reveal crucial information about what the system is trying to protect. You’ll also hear practical tools — from Post-it note system mapping to identifying hubs, weak ties, and hidden power nodes — that help you see your organization with fresh eyes and diagnose where change will actually take hold. If you lead transformation, change management efforts, or complex initiatives across large systems, this episode offers perspective, clarity, and grounded practices to help you map what matters and move change forward. 🎯 What You’ll Learn 00:00 – Introduction 01:40 – Why most system maps ignore people 06:20 – What boundaries hide (and why it matters) 10:45 – The Post-it note method for messy systems 14:10 – How to stay with ambiguity longer 18:00 – Power, hubs, and hidden influence 22:30 – Spotting real leverage points 26:50 – Why “laggards” hold essential insight 30:15 – Resistance as data, not obstruction 34:10 – Convening the conversation vs. being the hero 💡 About Emily Moore Emily Moore is an engineer, educator, and industry leader who teaches engineering leadership and systems thinking at the University of Toronto. Her work blends rigorous technical thinking with practical tools for navigating complexity, influence, and organizational change. 👉 Resources & Links • Subscribe to the Change Signal newsletter — https://www.thechangesignal.com • More episodes — @ChangeSignal 🏷️ Tags #EmilyMoore, #ChangeSignal, #SystemsThinking, #ChangeLeadership, #OrganizationalChange, #WickedProblems, #InfluenceMapping, #LeadershipDevelopment, #Complexity, #TransformationLeadership, #ResistanceAsData, #LeveragePoints, #SystemsMaps